Is charisma a mental attribute? That’s another topic.
Nope, time to talk more about everyone’s favorite subject (… because it totally is something easy for anyone to do …) – more True Dungeon!?!???
Before getting into the actual topic, some miscellaneous notes. I just updated my HoR4 characters in an e-file for both my main and my political characters. I apparently did not do a great job tracking Glory, as it looks like I’m at 4.3 Glory for my main rather than 4.0. “Yeahhh …”
Found out recently Gamehole Con will have True Grind, hope for the mornings, hope for the mornings. Lots of free time in the mornings for us, at the moment.
For closing on a year, I’ve wanted TD to use up design space by making INT, WIS, and CHA more meaningful. Sure, INT is majorly important for wizards and WIS is majorly important for priests. But, it’s purely a threshold, there are hardly any ways to affect these stats, and nobody else gives for INT.
WIS already does something natively. CHA kind of does something natively but is not tracked from a bonus standpoint.
I want various tokens that pump those stats. Ioun Stones are obvious for pumping them, but neck slot (Amulet of the Citizen +1/+1/+1; Amulet of the Politician +2/+2/+2) or whatever works, too. I mean, we have robes that pump DEX, INT, and CHA.
But, then what? What you gonna do when the Drow come for you?
I was going to post first to the forums, then “classic” my post to here, but I have to think things through first as, otherwise, unclear thoughts will get lost in the massive threads on what tokens to do next year.
There are some fundamental problems with doing more with these stats.
Number one, lack of using them historically. Classes aren’t likely designed to incorporate improvements or thresholds. Now, classes can be redone, though that’s a major undertaking.
Two, discrepancies. While one of the most important reasons to reward INT is to differentiate the stats of Wizard from Elf Wizard, if you suddenly bonus up INT to, say, AC, what about the massive discrepancies between classes that exist.
Three, overhead. Suppose you make one ultrarare that uses INT bonus to do something. Now, you have added one token to many that works differently than every other token. Suppose you add one token that “ranges” (see below) INT. Now, you have one token that looks for an INT of one value to do one thing and another to do another thing.
Ranges: Tokens that work one way if stat is in first range, say 13-16, and another if in second range, say 17+.
Thresholds, Bonuses, Ranges.
Threshold seems the simplest because, uh, it’s already used. Lenses of Divine Sight and Mad Evoker’s Charm are both premium URs that depend upon other tokens. In the past, MEC was very dependent, affecting builds significantly, now everyone just Starhides or better. LoDS is entirely dependent upon a single other token in the game. Yes, even though WIS actually does something natively, there is only a single token in the game that makes your WIS stronger. What?!?
My concern with thresholds is overdoing it. It also is weird because the threshold is really just going to be set based on what classes already have and tokens may not get you to the threshold. For instance, you wear the Amulet of the Citizen as a wizard – and you cut yourself lots with MEC. Wear it as an elf and you did care at all, except how this nonexistent token pumps your WIS.
INT and CHA bonuses are already on the class card. But, what about tracking – party cards, et al? Well, the party card has a place for spell bonuses, so, if the token was add INT bonus to damage, that’s easy from a party card standpoint. It’s somewhat more effort for manual calculation of spell bonuses but not a lot given how many other things to worry about and I see most UR running players going to using apps. I know that I, not a millenial, actually downloaded an app and it was good.
Problem I see with bonuses is limited number of tokens that make use of them. It’s just not a built in rule to the game like hit/damage bonuses or saves bonuses, so it’s limited design space. Also, there’s the discrepancy issue. How much whining are elves going to make because humans deal more INT than they do?
What I like about ranges is that there’s greater design space for all classes and not just spellcaster classes. I want INT/WIS/CHA to matter to everyone (more so than the latter two already do).
I can see a range being 14-16 and 17+. This encourages getting 13’s to 14’s and 11’s to 14’s. Big problem: classes are not well equipped for specific numbers and tokens that pump stats are going to have varying effects in ways that may not work at all.
Bigger problem: what will these tokens do?
What will these tokens do?
Obvious thing is to turn INT into spell damage bonus or spell to hit bonus. Okay but limited. I can see INT doing general to hit bonuses, AC bonuses, and the like because, actually, d20 systems had mechanics like those.
WIS could pump healing, but there’s a belief healing is already broken. Could just pump paladin healing, but that’s incredibly limited. Healing in general very limited. AC bonus? AC’s are already out of control unless we are talking about a slot that no one playing BIS would use on the token.
Non-numerical abilities. Can recast spells; limited to spellcasters. Can reslide pucks; steals from Fighter even more and duplicates another token ability. Bard Lore interaction (and its ilk); one class. What does everyone do?
Take puzzle and push damage. WIS token could reduce one or the other. Second token reduces the other.
CHA does what? So much push for bard instruments, which I’m good with. But, I want CHA to matter to everyone. Then, big problem is that some classes already have sky high CHAs.
CHA could be the help other party members with mechanical bonuses stat, except bardsong already does that. Figurines already cover having helpers and high CHA is already a figurine thing. Can’t do anything with treasure chips that wouldn’t be massively controversial and offensive to … me.
There are very few ways to interact with puzzle/push damage, so I definitely like the path that WIS can interact with those. INT can add bonus to something. CHA adding bonus to, say, AC is just awful with paladin. I just feel like expanding on CHA expands in problematic directions.
One last, terrible, idea for CHA: resurrection effect. You are so hot, just like that story … from that book … that has a musician/arcanist/martial artist hero.
Huge consideration. You don’t create a WIS token in the eyes slot, head slot, torso slot, or shield slot. Depends a lot on rarity. You can have something like “Don’t Push My Buttons” that reduces push damage based on WIS at rare in feet slot, even though nobody BISing is going to run it because how do you compare to Boots of the Four Winds?
Well, actually, if you are on a nightmare puzzle run, maybe you don’t care about +5 damage … … … puzzles matter PTB, puzzles matter.
So, let’s post some ideas so that I can claim someone else stole them from the OG.
Charm of Savviness (UR)
Gain a bonus to hit with melee, missiles, and spells based on your Intelligence: 14-16, +1; 17+, +2.
Shirt of Divine Defenses (R)
Reduce “push” damage based on Wisdom: 14-16, 1; 17+, 2.
Lenses of Discernment (R)
Damage from puzzle failure is reduced based on Wisdom: 14-16, -1; 17+, -2.
Fiddle of Exultation (UC, slotless, Bard)
May restore a dead character to life once per game, and no Bard instrument may be used after this effect. Requires 18 Charisma.
On a related note, I really like the idea of Ring of Soothing Touch but the execution is just bad. For one thing, why would you not just use the ring immediately? When would you ever heal less than 4 damage to someone who is pretty healthy? For another, there’s no path to making the paladin more healy – I would have liked to have seen RoST be part of a transmute path.
Gloves of Pure Care (UC, hands, Paladin)
Once each room, use of Lay on Hands heals +2. Requires 15 Wisdom.